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Rhiana Hernandez is a Brooklyn-based, American Culinary Federation-certified pastry chef and a culinary cannabis educator (most recently at Kingsborough Community College). They destigmatize cannabis by showcasing how it can be integrated deliciously into culinary and wellness practices.
Known for their business under the name K O K U J I N, Rhiana creates eclectic and unconventional flavor pairings. Their recipes are rooted in their Caribbean heritage and celebrate Asian intricate details, while focusing on providing a thoughtful luxe experience that caters to various diets and palates.
They specialize in incorporating the plant into self-care routines and everyday cooking, teaching workshops on intentional cannabis use and creating recipes for infused goods, as well as in-store cooking demonstrations.
You can find some of their recipes on their substack Edible Nonsense.
Next event(s): 1/29 - Bridge and Tunnel Brewery with Baby Got Back Talk
This interview has been edited and condensed for clarity by Solonje Burnett, Weed Auntie. Watch the teaser.
WA = Weed Auntie
RH = Rhiana Hernandez
WA: Can you tell us your name, preferred pronouns, and what you do for work/passion.
RH: My name is Rhiana Hernandez. I go by They/Them. I am a cannabis chef and educator, and welcome to the Sweet Spot.
WA: Our paths crossed through cannabis education and events, both at weed auntie and our time on the CUNY Culinary Cannabis Advisory Board, but never knew what propelled you into infused baking as a pastry chef. Tell me about it.
RH: It was selfishness. I am very picky about the pastries I like to eat. I'm picky about shit in general. I like to experiment a lot and the first edible I ever tasted was horrible and it really bothered me. I remember so distinctly, we put seven grams of flour into a cup of butter or two cups of butter and we threw it into a brownie mix. I just was enraged at the fact that we spent hours going through this whole process making this butter and it was a whole labor of love. We put it in something that just didn't taste very good and then I had such an extreme experience— like psychologically and physiologically. I cried. And it didn't make sense. So I figured there's no reason for this and I should just make things from scratch. It's just butter. Butter goes in everything. I was 19 when that happened and I haven't had a box mix since. Except one where I did – a sponsorship. Except I had to get paid for it.
WA: I love that like me, you are an island babe with your Jamaican and Puerto Rican heritage. Does that influence your creative process and art? What other cultures show up in your creations and flavor pairings?
RH: I learned most of my cooking from my grandmas, on both sides, which I actually just learned recently that my grandmother didn't start cooking for her family until she moved from Jamaica to America and that's when she learned how to make all of these dishes. I'm now the one responsible for keeping track of all these dishes because I do what I do. One of the first couple recipes that I tried learning and showing to my family was how to make infused sorrel and coquito. I learned how to make curry goat and infuse that. Then I'd show her ways to add things to patties— just little accessible things that I already knew how to do that I knew tasted good to just want to add a little magic to it.
Outside of that, I do love Japanese, Korean and Chinese cooking so much. I find that their attention to detail when it comes to their desserts, for celebration or even if it's just a simple strawberry shortcake. The lines are clean. The process is very intricate and detailed. It's almost like a video game in real life. I really like that puzzle solving kind of activity so it scratches an itch that also is really tasty. I get cake after.
WA: Has anyone ever judged you or labeled you for consuming weed whether in your family or professionally?
RH: All the time. It's never stopped. Let me take that back. It’s stopped a little bit now that I made it my entire job. People see I don't do anything crazy illicit but my whole life it's been people asking “why are you smoking weed?” But I always did things very well professionally. I got my shit done and they couldn't really get on me about it. So I would just do dumb shit all the time. I was always high. Now it's lessened because I have this acquired background of education where I can smoke a giant blunt and say, “Here's all the different types of terpenes that will help you go to sleep or help you with your knee problem or help you be more active during the day when you want to take a nap.” Screw off with your terrible opinion — But I just kind of take that pushback as an opportunity to be like, “Well, actually. There's much more to what you assume. And it's better. And you're wrong.”
WA: You mentioned a little bit about how your heritage influences your work and how you incorporate recipes from your grandmother, have you shared infused items with elders and people in the community or was this more for your personal you know edible process?
RH: It was more for my personal edible process for sure. I have given edibles to my family. On a very, very, very cautious basis, just because I don't want to make their experience really bad by having it be very strong and they get overwhelmed, but I also don't want them to think it's not something useful that they can use in their life.
For example, one time I made coquito for my grandmother on my father's side. She has a lot of chronic illnesses. I remember I used an infused agave and said, “'Just drink this and go to bed. Don't do anything. Don't touch anything.” I think she ended up knocking out for the first time, cold. And it was good because she has a lot of pains and aches and whatnot. And she was like, “Oh, I really passed out, I slept really well.” It made it accessible for her, and I figured if I did it like that, it would be easier for her to digest. Whereas conversely, I did it with my mom and I gave her a Camino gummy.
She wanted to be cool and say, ‘'Oh, I don't feel anything. It's whatever.” So I made Jamaican curry and put it on some popcorn and said, “Try this little snack.” I don't feel anything. And I give her a brownie that I made. I think at the time, if I'm adjusting for weed inflation or before drug math times, it had to be like 50 milligrams. And I said, ‘Please eat this in eights, cut it really tiny and slow and don't go crazy. It's potent.” She didn't listen. She ate a lot. It is just like a thing that I have with my mom where if you make something too fucking good for her, she'll eat it.
Using that vehicle of food to give back, because it was always a thing with my family, celebrations were around food, big events were around food, gifts were food. I think it's more just the edible consumption aspect of having to give her some— it was a lot.
WA: Getting into dosing. Most make edibles for potency, others like SASS do it for functional wellbeing, what drives your culinary focus?
RH: There's so many different types of consumers these days. The population of new consumers I feel is starting to come to a point where it's outgrowing the seasoned ones, which is fine. I'm really happy about that. When I think about how I dose my edibles, It's always on a person by person basis. Because not everyone is the same. Not everyone wants to take 50 milligrams to the face and then try and go about their day like I'm trying to do because I'm crazy. But some folks may have higher needs than others. I just try to accommodate that because there are so many more people eating weed nowadays. I want to make sure they all have something. Not just trying to either eat an entire container of gummies to feel something, because they have a high tolerance, or they have to cut a single piece of cookie into 10 pieces, because they have really low tolerance. Everyone has your own allocation.
WA: Making edibles has always been a part of Queer history and wellbeing, do you consider your work activism and has anyone in particular inspired you along the way?
RH: I do consider it activism. I find that it's really important that this information is widely shared and not just guesses and suggestions by people who may not have really researched the importance of what's going on. I was lucky enough to be certified by an organization and go through a college course that is unfortunately no longer funded because of unfortunate environmental influences, but I have it. I can share it. It's really easy to get on the phone and be like, “Here's how you do this. Here's the math thing. Just have it.” Because people are gonna consume weed, regardless of legality, they're going to find a way. We found a way to do abortions, we found a way to smoke weed, we found a way to do crack. It just is what it is. If I can just have some kind of hand in making it safe and accessible for people, so they are not having a bad experience that contributes to the negative connotations of cannabis, then yes.
There are some chefs that I've worked with personally that have inspired me. Chala June is a big one. That was my first infused dinner that I made desserts for a larger group of people, but also I like listening to the way that they work around food and the stories they put behind their food. I thought that was really beautiful and it made me change the way I saw my food and what I was trying to explain to people.
Another chef who I was just at his pop-up makes amazing food and I've worked with him as well is PapiTropical. He is another person who tells these incredible stories of family and cultural history through his food, but he also allowed me a chance to fuck around with other cultures and other foods that are also within my culture, within the diaspora of Latine food. And that was important for me. I am grateful for their influences in at least shaping me, making my food more interesting and telling a better story.
WA: How long have you been cooking with cannabis and since your start how have you seen it evolve? What would you like to see that has yet to happen locally and nationally?
RH: Okay, I'm gonna count that very first time I made those fucking brownies and I was 19. Oh wow. A real disgustingly long time— at least like 10, 12 years— not professionally, considerably, but like I've been fucking around with cannabis and food for a long ass time. I will say professionally for five years because that's when I started selling shit out of my apartment and making money for it.
I'm really glad to see it evolve from just “here's how you make butter. You put it in the box mix,” It was always these close-minded ideas. And it's grown into: “Here's how you can make brown butter infused. Here's how you can make chocolate infused, 'Here's how to temper chocolate to make sure it doesn't ruin the cannabis.”
When I was researching originally, I would still always find these pockets of people who were doing these experiments and playing around with food like this. I've also seen those people grow into what are now some of the bigger names in cannabis, like Chef Nikki and Chef for Higher. All these people have a legacy. And now, in the current market, you've got butter with infused ghee and infused cookie butter and you have infused coconut oil and vegan gluten-free gummies and chocolate. I saw a sour gummy rope the other day and I was like, oh shit, this is great. It's starting to grow in other states. You see different types of snacks being created and I'm happy about that. I'm also glad to see other infrastructures built that can allow for cannabis bakeries like you see in Chicago.
I'm glad to see that there's more more of a focus on conscious consumption, not we're gonna get fucked up and we have to get it all to the face right now as quickly, as efficiently as possible. It's like, no, you can have this really cute strawberry cheesecake swirl and it's 50 milligrams. You can split with a friend and you can also have an infused tea with it and a joint. The freedom is what I'm looking forward to. The freedom and the creativity for James Beard level restaurants, hopefully. Nah, I'm just going to put it out there. I would love for there to be James Beard level restaurants that are either centered around cannabis or involve it or at least teach something that is good with it.
WA: Who are your fave folks at the intersection of cannabis and culinary arts?
RH: Okay. Big fan of Chef Miguel Trinidad. He was also on the board of the program that I took and taught at. I've been to his restaurant Marie's. We used to do our final classes there. I definitely described him as a JoJo character because he is very humble, so full of knowledge, but you also know that because he's full of knowledge, there's this level of like [exclaims in fan girl], so it's very interesting to listen to him speak. And he makes an infused lamb ragu that is delicious. Delicious. It was the best part of the end of the class. I do need to get to his other restaurant because Marie’s isn't around anymore. But I look forward to that.
Another person I like is Christina W. From Fruit and Flower Co. She has a great substack where she posts information about different pieces she uses, cannabis consumption, wellness, and she gives a lot of information about like cultivation out in California. She also makes these really cute cookies. I actually, I feel like I have an interesting parasocial relationship with her because we've shared a couple comments and we follow each other's substacks. And she had a post where she was talking about a new book by Kat Liu, who's making a new cookie cookbook specifically. and I asked for it as a Christmas gift and I know she got it and she started posting her substack and I'm like, 'I wouldn't give to be in California to just try to just talk about this for 10 minutes. So yeah, we bond over cookies a lot. I hope we get to share one, one day.
WA: Professional pastry chef, educator, influencer, musician — tell me a bit about that last note? Baby Got Back Talk!
RH: Baby Got Back Talk. The most moisturized punk band since 2017. That's actually a funny thing because we are really all moisturized. Whenever we go on tour, every single one of us has at least two, like, lotion, Vaseline,, sunscreen. I bring a lot. In our gig bags. We really care about being pretty. I've been in Baby Got Back Talk for oh my god, like at least 10 years. We've traveled all over this country. I've been in the Midwest. We do at least a tour or a mini tour every year, and it's a pop punk band.
We're a pop punk band that I met the main singer through a childhood friend, and our other guitarist through Craigslist. And we just bonded. We sing a lot about social justice issues, about issues plaguing minorities. Living in a society burning down while also holding down a job or being a baker. And it's really fun. It's really important to me to be surrounded by people that can know about me on a personal level and also call me out on my shit in a way that's constructive. And you do that really well when you're in a music group because you’re constantly expressing yourself with music and it helps you form good relationships really well.
So I love them and one of them's having a baby and I'm very happy for them because we're all having these growing life experiences all tied to music. I've played two instruments with them. I started playing violin and then I picked up the synthesizer. So I just be doing noodley shit all the time.
WA: We love a creative baddie. All day. What’s your preferred way to consume cannabis and how does it affect your craft?
RH: I love smoking. I love rolling it. I love the whole click click click. I like everything. It's all a whole process that every step seems the same and it's really nice. Maybe it just appeals to the arts and crafts thing I enjoy. I especially love using pretty papers.
How does that affect my work? I don't smoke when I cook, that's definite, but I do try to consume whatever I'm putting in my food first, so I know what to expect. That helps a lot, especially if it's something that may come with an additional flavor. Which I learned the hard way when I was working in a bakery and we had a distillate that was watermelon flavored. And we didn't realize the watermelon flavor would carry into the actual baked good, which was cinnamon rolls. It was a cinnamon roll bundt cake. And you know what? I will be so honest. It worked! It was the most eclectic piece that we had made, but it definitely taught me that sometimes things have extra flavors and you gotta just check them occasionally.
What I also do is keep adjacent to what kind of edibles are out there, especially the vegan ones and the gluten-free ones, because I like to make sure there are gluten-free options. So I try and taste what is available and see what flavors they're doing but also to see what the effects and aftertaste is like. For example, there are some gummies where I'll have them and the next day, I feel like they just have an interesting taste in the end. I think about that when I cook. So when I test it, I try to have my food usually when I go to bed so I wake up and see, does it have that weird after taste? Is it the same? Can we edit? Paranoid. Everything I do makes me, gives panic.. Smoking gives me paranoia. It all gives me anxiety.
WA: Nah, just testing and perfecting. Testing ‘til perfection. Love it.
RH: Haha, testing and perfection. Yeah!
WA: Speaking of smoking, getting NASA, who would be in your dream sweet sesh? Queer icons, people who are living, deceased, whoever.
RH: I have gone over this question so many times and I think I think I've got it locked down. Niohuru, who is in the Boulet Brothers’ Dragula, but I'm bad at seasons, so you can't quote me. But, incredible artist Bianca Del Rio because I want her to read me for filth and I think we'd have great jokes. Sylvia Rivera. I would definitely want to have some tea with Sylvia Rivera. If we're also, I'm not sure if you're smoking, also so I'm just going to assume these are all adults. I would also say Pim from the Smiling Friends, because I want to have that big, giant blueberry, because I can imagine that it must be great for pie. Mako Mankanshoku from Kill La Kill. She's obsessed with food. She's super funny, and at the end she asks the main character out on a date, which was one of the first like queer relationships I saw in anime outside of Sailor Neptune and Uranus. Oh my gosh. HAHAHAHAHAHA I like one.
WA: What’s your favorite thing to do high?
RH: Ooh. Apparently, I love to either pass out for the entire day or I fill my entire day with so many things. That I don't stop. It's one or the other. I'll either be high and think. Okay, I kind of have energy or I'm zoning out. Kind of wait, let me rephrase. That's not that's not logical at all. I'll get really high. and I'll be like, I need to be productive to make this high feel good and not fall into some laziness or whatnot. I need to do a good thing. I need to be a good person and do stuff. And then I'm busy the entire day filling my shit with nonsense and I've gone on 20 side quests and Yeah, sometimes it's fun.
WA: Your favorite thing to do high is go on a SideQuest? HAHA!
RH: Yeah! Go on SideQuest. All the fucking time.
One of my best side quests I ever did was I went out to get well, we went, I went drifting with a friend and then we ended up getting ramen and I met a vendor who was vending at a weed event nearby and I showed up at that event and then I ended up getting work.
We love a side quest that ends in money.
WA: Money is always good. We love to partner with you, and we're excited there's a recipe that you're going to share with us. Can you tell us about it?
RH: So I have a couple different recipes. I'm doing this one for a holiday party and I'm super excited about it. It's a mango chamoy bar, like mango chamoy curd bar. I'm making a pie just to see if everything can be stable, because I like to do a test. But what it basically is, is a lemon bar structure that I show how to make a homemade chamoy and how to swirl it in, like one of those mango natas like you find in Mexico. It's cold now. I like to have warm flavors or at least pretend I'm in a tropical place when it's 30 degrees. Just manifesting for the summer.
Recipe by Rhiana Hernandez
WA: Beautiful. What do you have coming up that you want to share with the community? Any workshops or events where people can find you?
RH: You can always book me for classes online if you want to learn how to do infused recipes, how to change one or make something new to fit a different dietary restriction or lifestyle. I play with my band a lot, and I'm doing a show at Bridge and Tunnel in January, I believe, on the 29th, but I'll send you a confirmation. I'll make sure the right date is out, but we will be at Bridge and Tunnel next month. And I'll also likely be doing some workshops with The Travel Agency. Their workshop program is growing. Hopefully, I'll be in your living room if you want to book with me. Thank you.
Stay in touch: Instagram | Substack
Chrissy King is a writer, speaker, and educator who is reshaping the conversation around wellness, identity, and liberation. She is the author of The Body Liberation Project, a groundbreaking book that empowers us to stop shrinking, take up space, and embrace the fullness of who we are. Chrissy is also the founder of The Childfree Coven, a community for childfree women and nonbinary individuals.
With degrees in Social Justice and Sociology from Marquette University, she merges her deep knowledge of systemic issues with her passion for wellness. Writing for platforms like Shape, SELF, and PopSugar, throughout her work, Chrissy helps us imagine and create spaces where every body across size, race, gender, and identity feel seen, welcome, and celebrated.
Follow her: Instagram | Website | TikTok
This interview has been edited and condensed for clarity by Solonje Burnett, Weed Auntie. Watch the teaser.
WA = Weed Auntie
CK = Chrissy King
WA: Can you tell us your name, preferred pronouns, and what you do for work/passion.
CK: Hi! I’m Chrissy King. My pronouns are she/her. And I’m a Brooklyn based writer, speaker and educator.
WA: There’s so much miseducation and stigma around food, fatness, cannabis and plants as medicine. Where did you grow up and how did your cultural upbringing inform your body image and plant healing curiosities?
CK: I'm from Milwaukee, Wisconsin, which is one of the most segregated cities in the Midwest. I was homeschooled until I was in the third grade, but I actually really liked it. Then I went to a private Christian school. I was the only Black girl in my class. There were only two other Black people in the school, my brother and my sister. I was also 5'8" in the third grade. I was taller than my teacher. I was Black, I had kinky, curly hair. Everyone else was short, petite, blonde, brown hair, blue eyes.
That really informed my body image in a lot of ways because I felt like, "Well, if I'm gonna be tall, then I should be tall and skinny." I wasn't definitely getting those messages in my home but I also grew up in the 90s, the age of the Top Model and Tyra Banks and Naomi Campbell. From a very young age, I was hyper-concerned about being the thinnest version of myself.
I couldn't change the fact that I was really tall and that my hair looked different from other people's. The one thing I felt like I did have control over was how thin I could be and being the smallest version of myself.
I just didn't see a lot of representation of people who looked like me in mainstream media. And so I spent so much of my time just trying to shrink myself, to be the smallest version of myself to assimilate. I didn't even understand the ways in which I was just trying to assimilate into white culture. It took me a long time to unlearn that.
When it comes to weed, I grew up in a super Christian home. I'm talking about my mom was Christian, like Christian,, Christian. She went to church multiple times a week, Sunday morning, Sunday night, Wednesday night for Bible study, Friday night for something else. We were always in church. And so my views on weed was that it was the devil, essentially. My mom was like, it's a gateway drug. Once you start smoking weed, you're going to be smoking crack.
It's so wild because so many things like religion informed so much of my upbringing that I had to really deconstruct. My mom is still very much anti-weed. If I even told my mom I smoked weed, she would be praying all night long. She would be so concerned about my well-being. Growing up with religion, it really gave me so much shame about my sexuality, my relationship with weed, with alcohol. I really have actively had to deconstruct.
WA: you say that you spent the majority of your twenties focused on shrinking — “my body, my voice, and my entire life in general.” What were you hiding and what sparked the shift to finding your power literally in lifting.
CK: Oftentimes weight loss is a low-hanging fruit and it feels like the one thing you can control. There were all these other factors in my life that felt too big to address and weight was a thing that I could control and I could focus my energy on.
As I started to heal my relationship with body image, I got into lifting and I saw that my body is also strong and powerful and has so much utility besides being an ornament for decoration. Then I realized that I'm actually still the same person, just in a smaller body. I'm not going to say this is going to happen for everybody but when I got to that place, I left my marriage. I left my corporate job. I moved across the country eventually.
I was basically a child bride. I got married when I was 22. We started dating right out of high school. I was married for 11 years.
I would use my weight to control all these bigger things I was not ready to address yet. I think a lot of people do that because those big things are scary and weight seems way less scary.
WA: Much of what you were trying to control in your personal life was through controlling weight. Do you think this is culturally prevalent across all women, and how does it affect Black women combating stereotypes and being accepted socially?
CK: I do think that plays into women in general in a lot of ways that I don't think we always think about. Weight loss, especially now, it's so hyper normalized. It feels like everybody's doing it. When I stopped focusing so much energy and attention on weight and fat loss, I had all this time to think. And that sometimes was scary, right? Because now I have all this free space to examine my life. Sometimes a lot of us are running from that, hiding from that or don't like those moments of silence when we're forced to think about things.
I used to work in a corporate job. There were microaggressions. Trying to be perceived a certain way, making sure you're not coming off as an angry black woman.Being a smaller woman will inevitably be a way to feel less overbearing, less aggressive because of the stereotypes in the world.
For black women in particular, getting smaller oftentimes feels like a means to feel safe within your body, safe in your workplace. One thing I talk about, especially for black women in weight loss is that I also am very understanding of the desire to wanna lose weight as a black woman, because for anybody actually who has multiple marginalized identities, that feels like it's really hard to exist in the world anyways. Maybe being thinner feels like one way that I can feel privileged or less marginalized in a world where I'm facing all these other things.
There's a lot of statistics around being in a larger body in the workplace. You're less likely to get a promotion. You're less likely to make as much money. There's all these actual real systemic issues so I do have a lot of compassion and understanding.
WA: What was your corporate job?
CK: I worked for the federal government in the Department of Veterans Affairs in a management role. I was there for 10 years. I left that job because I became so uncomfortable. I got hives every day and I literally physically could not do it anymore.
WA: How did you start power lifting? Did you compete professionally? Tell us the story. Did that mean testing and no weed?
CK: I got into powerlifting kind of by accident. I got into lifting weights in general when I was really deep in diet culture and just wanted to be a smaller version myself. I started strength training. And at first I actually hated it. I was like, this is the worst thing I've ever done. I actually stuck with it because I had bought a training plan. I had 20 sessions. I was like, well, I spent my money, but by the end of it, I really enjoyed it. And so I kept training. I started seeing that my body was actually getting stronger.
As a kid growing up the narrative in my family's life was that I was the weakling and I was fine with that. Some people are strong, some people are not... I'm not. Then I realized strength is a skill just like any other skill that can be developed.
Then I started really having fun. I was working out with this trainer and her boyfriend opened his own gym so I followed her to this gym. He was into power lifting.
WA: Did you compete professionally?
CK: got into powerlifting kind of by accident, actually. I had been strength training with this woman, and I was growing to like it, really enjoyed it. Her boyfriend opened a gym. So I left from the commercial gym I was with and followed her to the strength training gym. There I saw people powerlifting, which is like deadlifting, squatting, benching. I had never really seen that. What really was fascinating to me is there were lots of women powerlifting with him. And I was like, wow, that's really cool.
They broke up. And my trainer just, like, ghosted me. Like, completely ghosted me. I reached out to him because I needed a refund for the last month. He apologized and offered to train me in power lifting. He thought I would like it. And I did. I fell in love with it. I just loved it so much.
I started getting stronger. And so I decided to enter my first competition. I was absolutely the only black woman competing. But I won my first competition. And I kept lifting over the years for like several years. I got really, really strong. I'm super proud of it. Like I deadlifted 405 pounds. But in competition. I've squatted over 300 pounds. I've bench pressed 200 pounds. I don't do as much powerlifting anymore because it's also really time consuming to train for powerlifting.
WA: Did that mean testing and no weed?
CK: I was not partaking in weed. I was in my late twenties and I had not even started engaging with weed at all. I was still very much like, oh, I don't know if that's a good idea. And I also will say that like, again, like so much of my deconstruction work has like really been thinking about drugs in general.
My dad had a really bad relationship with opioids so I have a lot of trauma around that. There was always this idea that if I just started, somehow I'm going to end up like that. It took me a long, long time until I really realized those aren't the same things and I don't have to be concerned about that. So it wasn't even then when I was lifting, I wasn't even concerned about that yet.
WA: How do you integrate cannabis, adaptogens or other functional wellbeing products into your wellness practice?
CK: Now I feel like I've had years and years of experimenting and doing what feels good for me. Now it kind of goes in cycles, which feels good for me. If I want to partake, I do partake. And then sometimes I'm like, nah, I'm okay right now. During the pandemic, I was definitely partaking daily. Now it just kind of I go with what feels good to me. I've been using a lot of weed for sleep lately because I just need to get through the night. It's been very helpful. I do use adaptogen some days. A lot of times during the day, especially to focus on writing. Winding down in the night is really helpful too.
It really just depends on how I'm feeling, you know, and what I feel like I need at the time.
WA: Powerlifting changed the narrative for you that weight loss = happiness. How did you go from individual self love/care and betterment to centering community healing, education and acceptance?
CK: Going through my relationship with body image and like diet culture, learning to feel at home and safe in my body was really transformational for me. I just started sharing about it with other people because I knew that I was not alone in that feeling. I knew that I was not the only person that's had that experience.
One of the reasons I wrote my book is because a lot of women, actually people of all genders but particularly for women, that's the final frontier. It's like you've healed all these other parts of yourself and the relationship with your body seems to be the thing that is still lingering. I wrote my book with the hopes that a lot of people will feel seen and understood in reading the words. And that also would help them move towards a more healing and liberated body experience.
WA: What closed that chapter of your career and how did your work as a fitness and strength coach, and a powerlifter lead you to Body Liberation?
CK: It was like a gradual thing. I don't think I ever intended to stop training. I started not having the capacity to do both and so I slowly phased out of doing strength. Sometimes I miss it, sometimes I want to go back and maybe I will someday. My work shifted and I just did not have the time, the capacity to do both. I passed on a lot of my clients to other people. I was doing virtual training before 2020. So that was kind of like something I was already doing. So it's just like a natural progression.
WA: You’ve talked about dating in a larger body. As your physique changes post lifting have you noticed a difference in how you’re approached when dating?
CK: I don't necessarily think I've seen a difference in how people approach me. I honestly think that no matter what body you in, there's a man out there that is going to be looking for you. No matter what your body type is. I will say the thing that I approach differently about dating when I am dating is that my body exists however it exists. That's always got to be at the forefront of it. If you have a problem with how I look now, I'm not the right person for you.
And I also don't diet. I'm not trying to change my body. This is what it is and who knows what's going to be next year. You just have to be okay with that.
WA: For those not hip to the verbiage? What is body liberation? And how does it connect to white supremacy in wellness and diet culture?
CK: A lot of people are more familiar with the term body positivity. I think that was one of the first terms I actually learned when I was trying to heal my relationship with body image. The thing is, the original body positivity movement was founded by Black and Brown women because they did not see themselves as represented within mainstream beauty, but also is very heavily rooted in social justice.
Over the years, body positivity has become really co-opted, right? If you just look at the hashtag body positivity on Instagram, you're going to see a lot of thinner white women talking about not liking the cellulite or not liking their hip dips or not liking their arm fat. One key difference that people need to understand is there's a very big difference by having a personal body image issue. I don't like something about my body. That's very different from living in a body that is systemically oppressed. That's a really big difference that people have a hard time making that connection on.
So body positivity is not just can I look in the mirror and like everything I see? Number one, that's probably not realistic. But number two, that that lacks all of the depth of like social justice and the reality that everybody should be able to feel safe and exist in their body free of harm.
Body liberation is about recognizing that our body is literally just a vessel that's allowing us to have this human experience. Moving beyond that it's about how are we creating a system that allows for people of all shapes, sizes, race, gender, sexualities to feel safe in our bodies. Be able to exist in our bodies free of systemic harm. This goes beyond just making fat phobic jokes on tv which is a problem by the way but we're talking about more systemic issues like can people in larger bodies fly on an airplane safely. Is there a seating accommodation? Can they find clothes in their sizes?
So liberation is more than just about a personal idea system. It's about a value system of collective liberation.
WA: Three years ago you put out your book The Body Liberation Project, how was that experience and do you think it would be received the same way today?
CK; It's such an interesting question. Writing a book is beautiful and amazing, and also treacherous at the same time.
I love that I had the opportunity to write a book. It's something that I wanted to do. I didn't expect it to happen when it did. The cards fell. I had the most untraditional and easy traditional publishing path of anybody I've ever met, and I'm really grateful for that. Just going into a bookstore and seeing your book is a wild experience.
Even now, you just told me that you saw the book at the bookstore, and I'm like, oh my gosh. It's an incredible feeling.
When you first do this, it's really scary, because you put so much into it, and then it feels very vulnerable. People are going to read it, and they're going to have opinions. And some people are going to love it, some people aren't going to like it, and I think that's what I have. The best advice that I ever got from another author is don't read the reviews, because people are going to love it, people are going to hate it, and that's with anything that you create.
If the book was released today, do I think it would have the same reception? When I was writing the book, I started writing in 2021. We were really in a place of increased body inclusivity and diversity, and we were also the head of anti-racism, and people were really receptive.
I actually was like, I don't even know people need this book anymore, because everything is going in such a positive direction. People are getting it. Then by the time the book came out, the tides were turning, and even now, it's a complete 180.
And I don't even know if the publisher would want to publish that book right now. It talks so much about body image, it talks about white supremacy, it talks about racism, it talks about the ties. The way that we think about bodies are so intertwined in racism and white supremacy.
I don't even know if I could publish that, or like a publisher would be interested in that today. The climate socially has just changed, you know, we’re in the age of Ozempic. Am I here to say people should or should not be using it? That's not the point. But I think that we are in a place where people are so hyper-focused again on being the thinnest and smallest versions of themselves. It's just completely different.
It's a different time now.
WA: Speaking of liberation, as a child free auntie, I noticed you recently started the child free coven for babes like us. What sparked this idea and what’s the plan because I’m so in!
CK: I oftentimes take it for granted that I live in New York. There are so many child-free people here! I have so many friends who are child free. I would talk to friends in the Midwest or other places and they seem so lonely being child free and I forget that I'm living in a place where this is very normal.
But when I go home, that's not the norm and people feel very isolated. They feel very left out. They’re lacking community. Sometimes it can be really hard if all of your friends around you are married and growing families. Kind of going in different directions. It's not that you don't have time for each other anymore, but it's just not the same. People are seeking community with people that are similar to them. That's why I decided to start it.
I decided that I was going to be child free. That's actually why I got divorced. There sometimes are really difficult courageous decisions that you have to make to be living the truest version of yourself. I just want people to feel supported in their decisions.
The plan is to first start with virtual events and eventually in-person meetups. We'll have retreats or trips.
WA: did you ever psychologically or actually pursue motherhood?
CK: I actually always thought I was gonna have kids. I actually did. You know, some people say, "I just can't wait to have a baby," or "I'm really excited about motherhood." It was never like that for me but I just thought that you get married and then you have kids. Like, it just seemed like a natural life progression, nothing that I ever even considered.
My ex and I, before we got married, we decided we were gonna have four children. Now, mind you, 19-year-olds cannot decide (laughs) how many kids they're gonna have. I'm also from a family of four so I'm like, "That seems like a good number," you know. So I did in fact commit to that, and then as we got married we didn't plan on having kids right away, 'cause again, we were 22. So it was like, it'd just happen later. But then as it kept getting later I was like, "Well, I don't know, maybe three. Well, maybe two."
I remember (laughs) having this conversation with my ex, and we were almost 30, and neither one of us had brought up starting a family yet. But it just came up in conversation. He's like, "Yeah, we're gonna have four kids." I'm like, "Wait a minute. You still think we're having four kids?" And he's like, "Well, yeah, why not?" I'm like, "Well, we haven't had one yet. Why would we be having four?" And I was like, "I could maybe commit to one." And he's like, "One?" And I was like, "Yeah, maybe." Like, "I could maybe commit to that."
Then we really had to have some really hard, difficult conversations because the more I thought about it the more I recognized I really did not desire to be a mother. My sister had my nephew when she was 18, so I was like 20 at the time. I was very involved in his life growing up and I helped her so much, but I also saw firsthand everything that goes into mothering. And I was like, "Oh, yeah, like, auntie is actually more than enough for me." (laughs) So we had to make the decision that he really wanted to be a father and I think that he should definitely pursue that, but I just could not in good conscience say that I wanted to pursue motherhood. We ended up getting divorced.
WA: Being child free for me allows home weed indulgence in any form at any time. How was your relationship to cannabis and/or plant medicine shifted or evolved? What are your go to’s for relief and relaxation now?
CK: Honestly, I love resting. I've been resting so much. I've been resting. I really love reading fiction. I read fiction a lot. I also love crocheting as of late. I think just leaning into what I need at the moment. And I think one of my favorite things about being child-free is I do not have to worry about caring for someone else in that capacity.
And I have days where I just don't have it. That means I'm just going to lay on this couch and do nothing. Take care of myself in the ways that I really need to or have a girl dinner because I'm like, I cannot cook anything right now. So sometimes I was going to have popcorn and a glass of wine and we're going to call it a night, you know?
It's really just allowed me the space, the capacity to take care of myself and the ways I need to take care of myself. As a child, I always felt like a lot of responsibility because of family dynamics. I always felt a lot of responsibility. I kind of feel like I'm mothering my younger self in a way by taking care of myself in ways that feel good, resting, allowing myself to have fun and just be playful.
WA: Speaking of popping edibles and getting NASA, who would be in your dream sweet sesh? Queer icons, people who are living, deceased, whoever.
CK: Oh, my sister. My sister. For sure my sister, number one. We're really close. She does not live herel but we talk literally every day on the phone multiple times a day. So, I always wanna ki with my sister, hang out and get elevated with her. It's always a fun time.
And honestly, any of my girlfriends. I feel like I'm really blessed to have wonderful girlfriends and be in community with wonderful girlfriends and have fun. Any of them. I'm just like, "Let's just hang out at the house, have a little edible, and just relax and have fun."
I don't really care about celebrities that much but if you're talking about writers I love Audre Lourde, bell hooks, but I don't know, they feel like my elders, so I'm not really sure if that's the vibe. Do you get what I'm saying? But maybe they would want to.
WA: What’s your favorite thing to do high?
CK: Oh my gosh. Honestly, my favorite thing to do high is come to the park on a nice day with a blanket and read my book and chill out. It's like the perfect afternoon to me. (laughs)
WA: So do you have anything coming up that you want to share with community, any workshops or events? And if not, what are ways folks support you?
CK: Um, I would tell people to follow me on Substack. I have two Substacks; Liberation Collective, and obviously the Childfree Coven. Um, I do most of my writing there and I would love you to join my community there. And then also I am on Instagram technically. I don't be posting on there a lot but I do be on there sometimes and that's @iamchristieking, and same for TikTok.
WA: Thank you so much Chrissy!
